Why Bose Sucks! / Reviews and Links

[EzyRider]

Apologies if this has already been discussed:

I'm looking into a home theater / music system for my house and the Bose Lifestyle 38 / 48 systems have caught my attention - especially the BoseLink ability to set it up to play music in different rooms through one base system.

I've read some sites (www.intellexual.com, but the site has been taken down) that absolutely shred Bose for using low-quality components and thriving on an awesome marketing machine. At the same time, many of the industry periodicals have great things to say about the Bose products.

Does anyone have any experience with Bose products (particularly the Lifestyle products)? Is their equipment really good and did I just stumble across one site of Bose-haters? When I listen to their speakers they sound fine to me (and those tiny cube speakers would be a big hit with Mrs. EzyRider), but could I be better served to build my own system from other brands' components?

[firstadopter]

Ezyrider, do NOT buy BOSE. I subscribed to Stereophile and a few other serious periodicals and all of them agree that BOSE speakers are not the best value for price / performance.

Most of the money you spend is gone out the window in the relentless marketing they do. BOSE speakers tend to lack mid-range in return for good looking designs.

I'm not expert, but I have done TONS of research in the past few years in audio, and all the respected audiophiles agree on this.

What is your price range? Out of the mass market audiophile brands, many say good things about B&W speakers. You can get a nice setup for $2-3k in the new 700 series.

http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/204bw/

If you want to spend less, you can't go wrong with the EPOS ELS3, which has a full center channel line. A review is here:

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/104epos/

http://www.ecoustics.com/Editorial/ is also a great speaker review portal.

Also other brands that are killer values and performance are Totem, Triangle, and Spendor.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'm a beginning audiophile myself.

[firstadopter]

I see you live in New York. There a ton of great audio shops in the city that are the envy of the country. Stop by them, bring a few CDs, ask the sales reps about BOSE (they will probably steer you away like I did), and most of all LISTEN to many many speakers. Speakers are still a subjective thing.

Be careful though. It's like a drug, very addictive hobby. Like computers, you may find yourself paying a LOT more than you intended. New speakers, new stands, new cables, new amps, new sources, LPs, SACD, upsampled CD player, new DAC, it's endless.

Here's a couple well respected stores:

http://www.inlivingstereo.com/main.html

http://www.stereoexchange.com/index.html

[CAG]

EzyRider,

When we built our new house several years ago, we put in a home theater system and our audio/visual consultant installed a 5.1 surround-sound Pinnacle speaker system http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/index.htm with Sony components. These speakers are phenomenal (particularly the 600-watt "Baby Boomer" subwoofer which has been known to move the furniture and walls in our family room). The price is fairly reasonable (the "Baby Boomer" is ~$800) and they've gotten very good reviews. There are a number of review links at their site and I'm sure many more on the net.

Best of luck,

CAG

[TheAngryIntern]

For my Home Theater system i went with the Klipsch Reference Series and I absolutely love them. I've got the RF-5 mains, RB-3 surrounds, RC-7 center channel. My subwoofer is a Definitive Technologies, cuz the Klipsch one was twice as much and doesn't sound as good. Bose isn't all that bad, but i do agree that it's mostly marketing. the Bose Tri-Port headphones are the best headphones I've ever used. 'course I've never tried sennheiser, and they're pretty much the best in headphones.

Just remember when building a HT system, you should allot roughly half of your budget on your speakers.

[EzyRider]

This is why I love this site. Thanks for the input!

[Stainless]

I have some Bose 601's at home that I've had for about 25 years. I've always liked them. I'm certain Bose isn't the absolute best, but I also doubt they are absolute shit. I've heard all the negative comments leading me to believe that there must be some truth to it. I would suggest going with what sounds good to you. I just got the Klipsch Ultra Pro Media 5.1's with a new PC purchase. Not sure that's the precise name for them, but they sound awesome. They look good also.

[firstadopter]

Bose IS better than mass market speakers from the brand name consumer electronics vendors, but you can do FAR BETTER price / performance wise with a smaller audiophile focused brand.

[firstadopter]

The following is a list of resources you should read before you let anyone you know buy a Bose system. You can get far better sound performance for a much lower price if you buy audiophile brands such as Usher, Epos, NHT, and even the more well-knwon B&W. Stereophile has a good list of audio component reviews for under $1000.

Smart Money Review - http://www.klipsch.com/media/Newscenter/SmartMoney%20Reprint_062404.pdf

We turn upthe volume on the Bose Acoustimass 5 Series IIIsystem ($500), which includes two tiny speakers—just 6.2-inches high— and a subwoofer. Bose is the No. 1–selling speaker brand in the country, likely due to the company’s hundred or so retail stores. But it’s certainly not this audiophile’s speaker of choice. “No, no!” Reed yells, not even a minute into “Rock Minuet,” furiously waving his hands back and forth for us to stop. His complaint? The speakers deliver high- and low-end sound, but no middle. Plus, they display a “harsh high end,” and although the subwoofer adds nice bass, “it makes the guitar sound thin.”

A Bose spokesperson says that the speakers are balanced and designed to reproduce low and mid-to-high frequencies “according to the artist’s original performance.” But this artist, for one, disagrees. Still, we give the Bose another shot, this time playing hip-hop artist Mos Def, to test how the speakers handle heavy bass. “Oh no, oh no,” Reed groans, sitting up to pet Lola, his Jack Russell terrier, who’s curled up on a pillow next to him. “I’d pay money notto hear that.” “Next,” Reed demands.

Why Bose Sucks - http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

As a part of a small sect of audio enthusiasts who loathe the company Bose Corp. for its marketing deception, shortcutting in manufacturing, and shameless consumer trickery, I was recently passed on a website written by a "Bose-o-phile", who was defending the company. Upon reading his site, I vowed to represent our side: the TRUTH.. Popularity of a name brand doesn't equate to quality. Bose mystique feeds off of its well-targeted audience: the ignorant, ill-informed, mass-market consumers who search for simplified hifi audio solutions in "all-in-one" chain stores.. Audio newbies often throw out the "But I heard that Bose is good!" defense, to which I respond "From who?" Was it a sound engineer, electrical engineer, materials scientist, studio engineer, sound producer, recording professional, musician, Mark Levinson? Ray Dolby? George Lucas? Anyone credible? Or was it your neighbor with the GoldStar walkman, Teac boom box, Funai mini-system, and Sylvania receiver? Perhaps the ubiquitous Bose Ads that they find in completely irrelevant magazines such as Popular Science, Times, Playboy, GQ, People, Astronomy, etc, had some sort of subliminal effect against the better of their judgment?

Bose equipment, even the flagship LifeStyle 50, resembles the sonic performance of the 11-year-old Aiwa minisystem in my garage. For $500, the Wave Radio is an overpriced alarm clock. If you're impressed by it, have a listen to a Henry Kloss radio for a fraction of the price! For $1000, the Bose 3-2-1 can not be described as anything less than a crime against sound reproduction. The message I want everyone to take from this lengthy review is that Bose, like Bang & Olufsen and Nakamichi, sell lifestyle and designer products whose prices are very heavily saturated by image and appeal. They are by no means, no means at all performance products. They have no cost-effectiveness, no bang-for-the-buck value, and draw no respect from any true audio enthusiasts. If your goal is to appeal to and impress housewives, then this system gets the job done, but if your goal is high fidelity, high performance, high endurance, upgradeability, and fair market value pricing then I would very highly suggest you look elsewhere.

Leading A/V Message Board on Bose - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=343759&highlight=bose

I currently have a Bose Lifestyle 35 System. I thought I had the best system until I heard a friends Klipsch system. It litteraly blew me away. Apparently I bought advertising.

My roommate a few years back had Bose 301's. He thought they rocked. I picked up some Wharfedale Valdus 400's for about $200 less for a pair that simply made him want to cry. He said it made him sick, that he wasted all that money on a set of speakers that he cannot even listen to anymore without getting FURIOUS. To say the difference was night and day is a GROSS understatement.

The thing I don't like about bose is that in almost all of their displays the speakers are right on top of you, and usually cranked up to a very high level. This gives the consumer the idea that speakers are full and and have a good soundstage, when it's just the opposite. Almost any speaker will sound good, in a crouded store, when the speakers are right on top of you and cranked up so loud they are distorted.

Bose Sues Consumer Reports - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Reports

In 1984, Bose Corporation sued Consumer Reports for publishing a review in which Bose speakers did relatively poorly. The review stated that the stereo image of the Bose speakers was unstable and "tended to wander about the room", undermining the basic Direct/Reflecting concept behind Bose's products. The final verdict ruled that Consumer Reports had in fact libeled Bose by overstating its negative findings, which were, more precisely, that the stereo image merely "moved along the wall" behind the speakers. This was something of a Pyrrhic victory for Bose, as since then both Bose and Consumer Reports readership in demographic areas where Bose products are targeted have became bitter enemies, and the same may hold true today. Furthermore, the monetary award of $210,000 in libel damages was appealed to the Federal Supreme Court, who overturned it. Nevertheless, the case is believed to have had a chilling effect on publication of subjective preferences in reviews, both specifically by Consumer Reports as well as in the media as a whole.

Circuit City Employee - http://www.retailworker.com/node/10435

Friends Don't Let Friends Buy Bose.. I am really fucking sick of telling customers that the Bose speakers are really cheap cardboard and foam pieces of shit, and that Bose's high-tech "engineering" (if you can actually call it that) makes no sense at all. Also, small speakers (especially ones that are cardboard with foam surrounds) are not meant to handle any midrange or bass frequencies. My point to all this mess? Well besides hating companies like Bose (and sony too) that have no shame in ripping off people who don't know any better, I'm hoping that newer entertainment employees or CC employees in general will stop selling these pieces of shit.

[emilyinNYC]

First of all, you all seem really nice & v. knowledgeable. I was just about to get on the subway and visit the B&O or Bose store (considering the Acoustic Wave or the Beosound 1), but thought I should do a little internet research first...then I found this posting. Wow!

So I'd like to ask:

1. Is it possible to have a minimalist system (music only, no home theater needs) that still sounds really big? (I live on Times Square, so it is *LOUD* & my apt. has really high ceilings so it sounds a bit cavernous)

2. Are all stereo systems (the kind that are all-in-one) crap?

3. Is it possible to get a good system for $1000-1500?

4. Is there anything that you recommend to take to the stereo store as test music to listen to on systems or should I just pick something I like.

5. Is bigger really better? I kind of like things that are small, plus I'd like to be able to take the subway back w/ the boxes. Maybe this is crazy...

Thank you so much for your reply and kindness. I just want something that really sounds good, fills the space & blocks out the taxi horns but I don't want to give B&O or Bose my money if they're really not all that or I'm just paying for marketing.

[firstadopter]

Welcome to the forum Emily. Please feel free to ask anything (tech or non-tech-related) on this forum, we love helping everyone. There are a lot of smart nice people on here.

You actually live in a great place to buy audio equipment. There are a ton of great music shops with good speakers/amps downtown near NYU. I would definitely bring in CDs YOU ENJOY and try them out.

1. Is it possible to have a minimalist system (music only, no home theater needs) that still sounds really big? (I live on Times Square, so it is *LOUD* & my apt. has really high ceilings so it sounds a bit cavernous)

Of course you can get great sound in small speaker sizes. I recommend

Usher S-520
http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1205usher/

Epos ELS-3
http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/104epos/

You also want a good intregrated amplifier. The one most audiophiles recommned is:

NAD C320BEE 399.99
http://stereophile.com/artdudleylist...85/index1.html

Rotel integrated amps go well with B&W speakers.

2. Are all stereo systems (the kind that are all-in-one) crap?

Most of them are unfortunately.

3. Is it possible to get a good system for $1000-1500?

Yes. Get a nice pair of bookshelf speakers (Usher and Epos above $300-400) and an integrated amp like the Nad ($399) and a nice CD player. You got yourself a kick ass music focused system.

If you want to spend a little more and get something more mainstream and popular WITH good sound, B&W ($700 and up) is a good brand with a Rotel integrated amp ($600-700).

B&W speaker review
http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/805bw/

4. Is there anything that you recommend to take to the stereo store as test music to listen to on systems or should I just pick something I like.

Just bring what you like.

5. Is bigger really better? I kind of like things that are small, plus I'd like to be able to take the subway back w/ the boxes. Maybe this is crazy...

Bigger "GOOD" speakers are better, but good audiophile "small" bookshelf speakers are still much better than the crap sold in mainstream stores like Circuit City.

Try these respected audiophile stores in NYC:

http://www.inlivingstereo.com/main.html - They sell EPOS speakers and NAD amps according to their website

http://www.stereoexchange.com/index.html - They sell B&W speakers and Rotel integrated amps

[Stainless]

What about Polk Audio. Are their speakers very highly regarded?

[firstadopter]

Polk speakers are generally better than most mainstream stuff (Sony, Yamaha) etc., but you still can do far better for the price. Just read Stereophile's budget component reviews on their website for some good names (Epos, B&W, Usher, etc.)

[emilyinNYC]

That was excellent, rendition!! ~You have given me much to think about (and look at: I can't get off of the stereo websites to even go to the stores in my neighborhood! - Reading sound reviews is addictive, I think).

I've realized that a good system is an investment; so I've decided to save my $ so that I can get the B&W speakers you mentioned - even though they're more that I thought I'd spend, they sound like they're worth it.

In the meantime, while my piggy bank fills, I figured I'd just get a pair of computer speakers to tide me over (I have NO stereo right now, just moved to NYC).

Is there such thing as a good sounding computer speaker that isn't really bad looking and is small? Everything I read on the wondernet says that the best sounding budget option is the Klipsch 2.1 ProMedia and the Swan (the latter of which is out of stock and is a little spendy for just a temporary fix), but the Klipsch looks MASSIVE. I kind of want something that's white, too to go w/ my computer, flaky as that may be.

Any recommendations for good computer speakers?

What is the # of Watts that I should be looking for (if I want to be able to listen to music fairly loudly and have it sound good)

Do I really need to buy this Surge protector thingy (by Monster) that's always sold alongside computer speakers?

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you so much!!!!!

[firstadopter]

Glad I can help. For computer speakers, the Swans come highly recommended by people I respect, although I have never heard them. People who like to listen to music really like the Swans it seems.

Swan Diva M-200 - $190
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16836136102

If you want real cheap, you can go with:
Logitech X-230 $30
Logitech Z-5300e $130

But cheap computer speakers, you kind of get what you pay for and it obviously won't sound as good as good audiophile speakers.

I kind of have the mix of both worlds, as I use my Usher S-520s as computer speakers AND music speakers through my amp.

Don't worry too much about wattage, you want quality first. Yes it is worth getting a good UPS / surge protector. Don't get monster though, get cheap APC Backup UPS ES500. They don't cost much and will protect your computer, speakers, and expensive electornic equipment from lightening strikes and brownouts. Plus it has the added benefit of giving you 5-10 minutes of running time when there is a power outage.

[paul young]

Hello, I want to buy a pair stereo bookshelf speakers and i have gest 7 options: DALI CONCEPT2, KEF IQ3, BOSE 301-V, CANTON GLE403, JAMO E825, JAMO D830 and JBL NORTHRIDGE E30.
What your recomand me for a music like Jethro Tull, Emerson Lake& Palmer, Tangerine Dream, King Crimson....
Thanks to all for yours opinion!

[firstadopter]

I don't know of any of those brands well as they seem mainstream to me. You should stick with real audio brands like B&W and Epos (they are affordable too).

Check out this link for good speaker reviews: http://www.stereophile.com/equipmentreviews/

[stupot42]

Originally Posted by paul young

What your recomand me for a music like Jethro Tull, Emerson Lake& Palmer, Tangerine Dream, King Crimson....

Some nice choices there! I'd have to say (whilst standing on one leg and doing my best impression of Mr Tull) that I'm more than happy with my Eltax bookshelf speakers. They're a couple of years old now, so I'm not sure what their latest offerings are, but they're a reasonable price and perfect for the type of music you've mentioned. Obviously the answer is in the ear of the beholder ultimately tho.

[arogan]

So I've been talking with the wife about getting a new HDTV for the family room (still on a 35" tube right now). Actually the family room is in need of an entire home theater upgrade. The wife only agreed to a new TV if we swap everything out. That means all the AV furniture, surround system, TV, the works.

I've got most of the video stuff covered since I keep up on that stuff but I'm darn near clueless when it comes to audio. The system is close to 10 yrs old. It's some cheap kenwood 5.1 DD/DTS receiver with a mix of cerwin vega front speakers that are huge (but sound good to me) and I know here it comes...some bose front(hey I got it for free) and rear speakers. I do have a nice klipsch sub woofer that I'll keep.

So I really need some help in this department.
- This is for a good sized family room in a house.
- Almost exclusively used for Movies (dvd, blu-ray, hd-dvd), some gaming (most of that is confined to an upstairs bedroom), and HDTV recordings played from an HTPC. We listen to very little music in the house. At minimum I'll need 5 new speakers (2 fronts, 2 rears, and a center) with the possibility of going 7.1 maybe in the future so I want a voice matched set (or even a theater in a box if there are good ones out there).
- I am NO audiophile.
- I'll need a new receiver that supports hdmi (maybe even hdmi 1.3), 7.1 channels pcm (for dolby TrueHD)
- It absolutely must be aesthetically pleasing. The wife has final say on how all this stuff looks. This is her primary motivation for the upgrade. Me of course is all about the technical. In her eyes the less visible this stuff is the better but I'm sure she will be flexible (say thin tower speakers or something like that) as long as it looks good.
- Budget? I'm pretty flexible but personally I want to dump more of the money into the TV than the sound system so I'm thinking $1000-$1500 for everything (5 speakers (no sub needed), receiver). Is this too little, too much? Would I be making too many compromises at this price range?
- Also looking on recommendations on any AV furniture like speaker stands, TV stand (tv will be 52" LCD flat panel or bigger).
- Any suggestions on unloading all the old equipment? All the stuff we are replacing needs to go out of the house. Maybe craigslist or something?
- Timeframe: probably sometime between a month from now until around the end of the year.

I'm open to any and all suggestions. I really have no brand preferences. I'm looking for good value bang for the buck kind of setup.

[firstadopter]

You really can't go wrong with a B&W speaker + Rotel receiver setup. That combo is widely recommended for people who want better sounds in home theater without resorting to mass-market brands. Unfortunately that might not fit your wife's design preferences.

[TheAngryIntern]

One thing I read a few years ago is that when planning a whole new home theater system you should plan to spend about half of your total budget on the speakers.

[arogan]

ok rotel surround receivers start at around $1300. That's a bit rich for me.

BW has some interesting designs. I'll have to show the wife.

Any opinions on round speakers?
http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?Pa...WPROD&ProdID=3
http://www.roundsound.com/nucleus-micro-speakers.htm

Also thinking about these:
http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...inema_800.html

[firstadopter]

The first two, I never heard of. Definitive Tech I think got good reviews. The 2 best places for reliable reviews is Stereophile and the Absolute Sound. Probably worth a trip to your local library and read some back issues of Absolute Sound. Stereophile posts all their stuff online.

If you spending less on receiver, prob. any mass market is fine (Yamaha, etc.).

You should also consider an EPOS home theater speaker system, which will give u great sound for good price.

[TheAngryIntern]

i have a Definitive Technology 12" subwoofer, and it's freaking awesome. All my other speakers are Klipsch Reference series, but the sub that went with the Klipsch set was like $1200 and the Def Tech one was about $600 and the guy at the audio store said the DefTech one sounded better anyway. I might have to look into those DefTech satellites, as I'm thinking of getting rid of my Klipsch towers (too damn big for the room i'm in now) and I want to get my LCD tv and was thinking of getting some smaller speakers to go with it. I could just get the satellites and center channel and continue using my current sub.

[arogan]

looking at this receiver:
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i
seems like a good value at $400
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.proc...de=ONK+TXSR605

[firstadopter]

I can't say much (sure looks well featured). I good board for this stuff besides AVSFORUM is: http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?type=2

[Mike who loves]

Hi folks, having worked for Bose and B&W I am very aware of all the bad mouthing that goes on but have not yet figured out why. In a correctly set out room, with the right cable and equipment and you sat in the right spot a pair of B&W speakers are probably the best in the world. However, in a normal room, with almost no cables and just what comes in the box a Bose system is just amazing. Its easy to use, sounds great (not a hi-fi term) and most wives like it. Why get hung up on 'is it Hifi?' or 'where is the mid range?' Who likes Strawberries? Whether you do or not, liking Strawberries is not wrong.
Spreading the word, yes, Bose spend a fortune on marketing but if B&W had the money I am sure they would too! All successful companies need to keep sending out the message you name one successful company that keeps quiet about its stuff!
Wave Radio, I get reps in quite often with ‘Bose Beaters’, but when we listen, they are not. For size vs. price vs. sound the Bose wave radio is just the best proposition, but you pay your money and make your choice, if you don’t like it you get your money back, so why do so many people decry Bose for its very marketed Wave Radio. You can not loose. Hundreds of thousands of people are happy with their Bose Wave radio, if you don’t like it get your money back. Just out of interest, how many other 'hi-fi' companies offer such a great fail safe?
Lifestyle, over priced, badly built? Why do people say this, you can not buy, for any amount of money, a music playing device which would come out of the box, listen to its self and make its self sound really good in any domestic space. I have installed many Lifestyles and every one is thrilled. No one bought blind, they all researched and at the end they bought. It's not for everyone, but for goodness sake, don’t decry it for meeting other people's needs.
If anyone would like to ask any questions about Bose please feel free, and if I can help, I will.
If you live in Leicestershire UK, please visit Around Sound in Stoneygate with your favourite CD and we will have a listening session.
Bye for now

[stupot42]

Hey Mike... some interesting points you've made in there, and I'm sure they'll spark a bit of debate.

Welcome to the forum, and I hope you'll stick around and post some more. It'll be nice to have another voice from this side of the pond.

BTW, I doubt you'll get many visitors as I think I'm right in saying that I'm the only UK based regular poster.

[Mike who loves]

Hi Stupot, how did you manage to be so quick off the mark? This thread is quite old yet you replied to me in 10 minutes, was that just a conicidence or am I missing something?

[stupot42]

Ha ha... you must be missing something!