New Silent HTPC PC PVR Build

[firstadopter]

With my Tivo on the fritz, I'm thinking about building a HTPC PVR for the living room.

So far here's the component list:

-Shuttle K 6200 PC Case / Motherboard $206
-Intel Cheap Celeron Pentium $65
-256 MB of RAM FREE (already have a spare)
-DVD-ROM FREE (already have a spare)
-Hard-drive $40 (I'll pick up the cheapest one on one of those weekly rebate specials)
-Beyond TV 3.5 / Hauppage WinTV PVR 150 Bundle $135
-Mouse/Keyboard FREE (have spares)

That's about $500 shipped.

Little more than I want to spend, oh well.

Interested in what you guys have experienced in these types of PVR PC projects?

[TheAngryIntern]

i attempted it a few months ago, and then gave up and bought a Tivo. I couldn't get the thing to work right, but then again i really didn't try all that hard. I used a P4 3.06ghz and a 9600xt video card with the Hauppauge PVR-350 TV tuner card, 1gb ram and a 100 gb harddrive running WinXP home edition. I decided to go the free route and use GB-PVR http://www.gbpvr.com/ as the PVR software. I got the ATI DVI-Component Video adapter to hook into my 36" Panasonic HDTV-ready TV. I had problems right there with the displayed desktop being just a bit too big for the TV screen. I've read that you can use Powerstrip to correct this, but i didn't know that at the time. I've got DirecTV and that might have had something to do with the fact that i couldn't get the computer to switch channels without locking up. I tried for a few days to get it running right, then just gave up cuz i really didn't have time to mess around with it. If i do it again, i think i'm going to use linux and install MythTV, which is supposed to be an excellent PVR solution.

In case you weren't aware of it, there is a great website called BYOPVR http://www.byopvr.com that is dedicated to home brew PVR projects. This is where i did most of my research leading up to my attempt. Keep us posted on the progress and it might inspire me to try again!!!!

[firstadopter]

What did you do with all those nice parts? (grin)

[TheAngryIntern]

well, the cpu, video card and memory now reside in my roommate's computer, cuz her's was starting to go FUBAR on her. i still have the tuner card cuz i plan on eventually trying the project again.

[firstadopter]

Female roomies? Fun!

[TheAngryIntern]

Female roomies? Fun!

not really, considering she's married to one of my other roommates......

[arogan]

heh you've touched on one of my main hobbies. This might get kind of long.

I've been doing pvr/htpc for about 3 years now

my current setup:
3 pc's on 24x7 each with a pvr 250. I can resolve tripple conflicts so basically I never miss anything.
Across my 3 pc's I have about 750 gigs of storage. Right now I have 293 shows available taking up about 420 gigs right now.

htpc is in a antec sonata case with a ati 9600np (no fan) very quiet running on an old athlon 2400xp with 768megs ram.

best IR blaster/receiver:
http://www.usbuirt.com/
I use it with girder: http://www.promixis.com/ (use to be free)
I think gbpvr works with usbuirt too.
Integrates nicely with my universal remote which controls all my AV equipment plus the HTPC.

for keyboard mouse I have two wireless sets.
one is compact and IR based:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Keyboard/sk7100.asp
the other I use for gaming is a logitech mx duo.

software: I wrote my own (rcTV). It's still pre beta but the main feature my pvr does that I haven't seen anywhere else is it supports multiple machines each with multiple cards. so you can basically set up a big grid of computers all doing the recording driven off a centralized season pass list which resolves all conflicts based on priority. It also handles channel changing on external boxes through serial cable or through the above usbuirt. I'm using serial cable with my digital cable box right now. I also use compskip (http://www.sage-community.org/index.cgi/wiki/ComSkip) for automatic commercial skip. I even make that data available on export for archival to dvd in videoredo (http://www.videoredo.com/) format.

I have 3 X media mvp's + the htpc so I can watch my tv in any of 4 different rooms in the house from any of the 3 recording servers.

in summary:
- 13 days of program data through xmltv all free.
- distributed cluster recording. Ultimate in flexibility on how your partition your space and cards among machines. Some redundancy. If one machine goes down not all your recordings stop.
- centralized scheduling/season passes, wish lists, etc. Web version currently in development.
- mvp integration
- Playback anywhere in the house using mvp's, htpc, or even my laptop over wireless. Everything just streams seamlessly and transparently over any of my recording servers.
- system is pretty much rock solid stable (short of a power outtage). Me and 2 other beta testers have been running this setup 24/7 for almost a year now with almost no down time.
- If you want easy setup stick with tivo. if you love to play around with this tech then you can really create something that goes way beyond what a tivo can do. Plus everything is nice and OPEN: nice standard mpeg2 dvd compliant streams, free guide data, etc. No encryption, No DRM.

On tv cards the pvr 150 is an excellent choice.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00064GI2O/002-0006364-2902474

circuity city also has these on sale quite often for around $60. You will want at least two so you can record two shows at once (or timeshift on one and record on the other).

also look into this:
Hauppauge Media MVP

gbpvr has naitive support for this device

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/c4/92/Hauppauge_MediaMVP.jpg
$99 but sometimes can be found for cheaper with rebates

http://www.hauppauge.com/html/mediamvp_datasheet.htm
http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support_mediamvp.html

great site for mvp and pvr250 products. check out the forums
http://www.shspvr.com/

latest beta software:
http://www.shspvr.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=41

this is the alternative ui that I use:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mvpbtv/
but then I hacked that and modified it a bit.

- tiny box, no fans
- plays mp3, jpg, mpeg1/2/4/divx/xvid, shoutcast internet radio. Basically now I can watch all my "tivo/rcepg" recordings in the bedroom.
- wired ethernet port. You can use a wireless bridge if you want. You will need 802.11g if you plan to stream mpeg2.
- easy html based interface that you can hack. I've added the ability to check weather and local traffic maps.
- One pc must be on that runs the service. Very easy to add directories that are available to the mvp. Even network shares work fine.
- Good play back controls, resume even after power off on multiple files, quick 30 sec skip forward/backward to skip those commercials, instant jump from 0-100% in 10% increments using the number keys!
- picture quality is excellent.
- the box runs linux and boots the entire os off an image file on the host pc so upgrades are easy! Source is available so people have been hacking it and adding stuff like telnet.
http://www.shspvr.com/mediamvp_apps.html
- UI uses internet explorer object to render the html that makes up the UI. Control from the mvp to the host pc service is done through a modified version of VNC. Actual streaming of media is proprietary (NOT VNC).
- you can add up to 12 of these things on a single network.
- some small stability issues but it works fine 95% of the time. But then again I am using the beta version of the software.
- beware hardware revision D3 (d3a is fine). I hear those are defective. I have a D1 and it's fine.
- the perfect companion to any HTPC/home grown Tivo setup.

Cheap, quiet, near instant on, plays everything, great picture quality, open, hackable, expandable.

[firstadopter]

Awesome post, thanks.

http://systm.org/mythtv/

Is a how-to video episdoe on building a Linux MythTV.

Anyone have experience with MythTV? Is it stable now? Maybe I'll build a cheap AMD basied Sonata box to try it out.

[firstadopter]

If I went for a commercial solution, what is best:

1) Beyond TV
2) Sage
3) Windows MCE
4) ATI

Basically I just want an idiot proof solution like my Tivo, so my wife can use it with a good remote.

Any good remotes out there?

The HTPC will be a PVR only, so anything that comes close to the idiot-proof Tivo experience with remote would be great.

[firstadopter]

I'm spending hours a day doing HTPC research. Sigh.

Here's a good store: http://www.pcalchemy.com/index.php

[TheAngryIntern]

that is a good store, and it's right here in san diego, too! i ordered some stuff from them, then found out they were local, so they allowed me to pick it up at their facility. nice guys running the place. Definitely would do business with them again.

[arogan]

if you get a usbuirt you can basically use any remote you want. On my unviersal all I did was pick a brand that I don't own and used those ir codes.

Plus you get a IR blaster out of it. It really is the most flexible option.

[firstadopter]

Every system I spec out comes to over $600. Oh well, this stuff isn't cheap.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Windows Medai Center 2005 solutions. I know, I know. Microsoft! gasp. But it does seem to be the slickest UI out of the bunch with remote, probably the highest "wife acceptance" factor since she will be using it all day.

She's used to the Tivo, so her UI expectations are pretty high.

So here's my current everchanging spec list:

MSI K7NGM2 $59 (cheap micro ATX with onboard video, nforce 2 chipset)
AMD Sempron 2400+ Retail $61
eVGA NVTV Dual Tuner $134 (seems to have better image quailyt vs. PVR-150s)
Antec Aria $99 (quiet micro-ATX case)
Hard-drive $50 (whatever weekly after rebate special)
WinMCE Remote $38
WinMCE 2005 OS $130

It pains me I'm considering Microsoft.

I decided to stay away from the Shuttle boxes because it seems there are lots of problems with fans dying and sytems melting.

I need a rock solid 24/7 PVR that is quiet. It's only use will be PVR-ing.

[firstadopter]

Actually I might just get this:

http://www.eskapelabs.com/myTVPVR.html

It's cheap, comes with remote, and I already have a Mac Mini which is whisper quiet. LOL.

[firstadopter]

Looks like all the remotes out there kind of suck, I may use my Tivo Remote :) with USBUIRT. Thanks!

[firstadopter]

I winded up ordering a Hauppuage PVR-500MCE for $110 shipped from Amazon.com. I got like $30 off for signing up for their credit card.

The dual tuner won me over vs. the Mac Solution.

I plan on building a GBPVR box. Considering a bunch of options, anywhere from a Shuttle to AOpen to Antec Aria to ASUS Terminator Via C3 box.

So much out there to consume.

[arogan]

great choice. GBPVR would be me first choice if I wasn't writing my own. The developer really does support his product very well and you can't beat FREE.

[firstadopter]

So I got my card the day after I ordered it (Amazon.com free shipping is amazing, I basically got it overnight delivered).

I've been trying GBPVR, Sage, and Beyond TV.

GBPVR works well, but the picture quality is lacking. I see motion squiggly lines when there is movement on the screen. This probably is because I'm using the Cyberlink MPEG decoding s/w, which is the only one I own right now.
Also GBPVR doesn't seemd to have search by keyword opton to record programs and as many recording options vs. the others.

Sage has the best picture quality, it isn't as snappy though. Probably because it's written in java. I like the UI and the multitude of options. It also looks like it works with UIRT remote, which is good thing since I want to use my Tivo remote.

BeyondTV has good image quality and the most Tivo like UI. However the sound seems a bit off synch with the video and it kind of crashed on me.

Sage already has audio drop outs and video problems, which can be fixed by re-booting the program.

So far, I guess I'm not too happy with the software performance.

I want something with great image quality, totally stable (no crashes), etc.

I guess I should try Windows MCE (UGH the cost tho) and Myth TV.

Anyone try some these? Opinions?

[arogan]

your pvr comes with mpeg2 software decoders. it's what I use and the quality is pretty good. It should also remove any audio sync issues. Just make sure you uninstall the existing mpeg2 decoders.

When you install you can uncheck all the other stuff (like wintv) and just install the mpeg2 decoder.

I haven't looked that closely but GBPVR doesn't have a concept of a tivo like "wish list (kind of a keyword search)" vs "season pass"? Hmm my software does.

btw, if you want to test my software just message me and I'll set you up. It takes a bit of work to setup, the playback TV interface is pretty much done (my wife uses it without issue) but the scheduling UI is still pretty early.

[firstadopter]

I got an OEM version, so it doesn't come with the WinTV s/w.

[arogan]

latest drivers:
http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?topic=8389.0

points to:
http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?topic=6680.0

all you need to install is this:
Hauppauge Software MPEG Decoder 5.0.22236

which you d/l here:
ftp://ftp.shspvr.com/download/wintv-pvr_250-350/base_cd/hcw2_2_22301_pp2.zip

[firstadopter]

Sage UI is getting annoying. I'm going to give GBPVR another whirl, a new version was just released yesterday.

[dotcomslashnet]

I've gone through evey kind of pain possible with my HTPC... ranging from problems with noise and overheating to frankly appauling hardware support spontaneous resets. I am settled at the moment on MCE 2005 - My hardware is:

2.8G P4 (Prescott - doubles as a space heater)
Geforce 6600 (PureVideo is cool)
1.5GB RAM
360GB Storage
2x WinTV NOVAT USB2 Tuners

I've strayed in the past from MCE, but I've been running it on and off since 2002. I've got to say it has come a long way and is in my opinion by far the most intuitive solution I have used. It isn't bug free and 100% stable, but it's a sight better than some of the alternatives. I've used GB-PVR, and I have to take my hat off to the guy behind it - he seems to go out of his way to make sure you get the most from his little project - but I wouldn't call it a comprehensive solution (it's been a while - don't know what recent advances there may have been).

Alternatives I have looked at include:

MythTV
ShowShifter
BeyondTV

I've found nothing though that stacks up the wife-friendly points like MCE2005. I moved to a HTPC solution from Sky+ (Similar to Tivo I believe) and was in the same predicement. My wife picked up the media center very quickly - there are many similarities.

If you want something that looks as slick as MCE2005 for free then one to try is MediaPortal - http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net. MP doesn't measure against MCE for reliability - but it is far more feature rich and extensible.... and they are getting there with the reliablilty issues. Infact - this project is very active, and has been progressing at an alarming rate - although it's still in a beta.

[firstadopter]

How stable were MythTV and Showshifter?

[dotcomslashnet]

I only got so far with MythTV and the hardware I had at the time... although a friend of mine has successfuly configured MythTV and claims it is very stable. Show shifter was a bit of a show stopper for me - maybe because of the poor hardware support - although my hardware worked well in MCE. I personnaly hate the ShowShifter interface as well.

[firstadopter]

I hooked up my PC's ATI 9700 to my standard TV through S-Video and it looked like crap.

Is the Nvidia FX5200 s-video going to be much better?

[arogan]

hmm I've always had the opposite experience. Usually nvidia tv out was the worst and the built by ATI cards were the best. I'm currently using a built by ati 9600np in my htpc, and I think the svideo looks pretty good.

maybe look into their hdtv component cables:
http://www.ati.com/products/hdtvadapter/faq.html

if you do decide to try nvidia take a look at this:
http://tvtool.info/index_e.htm

[firstadopter]

Arogan, what settings are you using for s-video out on your ati9600?

640x480? 16-bit color?

What resolution and color bit setting?

[arogan]

well my htpc is hooked up to an old 35" tube mitsubishi tv. So I usually run at 800X600 32 bit through svideo with the latest catalyst drivers.

I think getting an xbox360 later this year will finally push me to get an HDTV.

[Blakes_7]

Hello everyone. It's good to see other people interested in the noble art of PVR. I'm a linux lover and this is what I've been up to.

I'm currently running on:
2.8Mhz Celeron on a Dell 2350 motherboard
Intel 815 Onbard Video
30GB maxtor HDD
Kworld KW878RF-Pro software capture bttv card=78 Tuner-17
512MB DDR RAM
knoppMyth linux : http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html
Datadirect(zap2it)TV Listings http://labs.zap2it.com/ztvws/ztvws_login/1,1059,TMS01-1,00.html

I've found knoppMyth's Mythtv to be extremely stable in R16 once the initial setup is complete with only a few eratta.

I have been running for about 3 months now trying different things and the only problem I have discovered is that when deleteing commercials.

You have to remove commercials as RTJPEG before converting the files to mpeg 4 to save space. If you try after they are converted the recordings will get out of sync at the first commercial break and will be messed up after that. I usually cut the commercials out on the first pass then convert to MPEG4 on the second. If anyone knows a fix for this I would be beholden.

RTJPEG(nuppelvideo) 480x480
4.0GB/hr with commercials
2.6GB/hr without commercials

MPEG4 480x480
650MB/hr with commercials
500MB/hr without commercials
(example Smokey and the Bandit with commercials - 2 hrs 2 mins 1.2 GB)

the nuvexport script (available in R16 and later)works well for converting to MPEG 1,2,4, XVid, AVI. etc

The commercial flagging is fairly accurate but can be tricked is a commercial uses a fade out, so it's best to eyeball them before you make the cut.

I had this same setup on
400Mhz Intel 440BX chipset
GeForce FX5200
384MB SDRAM
but I could not use MPEG4 without skips. RTJPEG wotked well though. I'm hopeing to use a card with hardware MPEG-2 to free up the processor so I can go back to this box and move the other to a 2003 Server box.

[firstadopter]

Blake, do you use a LCD monitor for display or a TV?

If you're using a TV, how is the TV output quality of the Intel integrated chip set?

[Blakes_7]

I'm using and LCD monitor currently because there is no S-Video output connection on the Dell 2350 Motherboard, and there are issues with using a PCI GeForce FX 5200 and that chipset. It's a pity too because the integrated chipset has a superb picture and does some combing and filtering in the overlay.

The way I'm watching TV currently is by streaming content to my PC. knoppMyth incorporates Apache web server so I just type in the IP address of my PVR, click on recorded shows, and drag what I want to watch to Windows Media player classic.

If i reboot in SuSE linux I have a copy of mythtv installed on it and can act as a frontend and watch TV in real time through the network.

I'm debating setting up the 400Mhz system as a frontend for the living room which would have S-Video out through GeForce FX 5200.

I could then schedule recordings on the backend and be able to watch prerecorded stuff or live TV on the frontend whithout bothering anything and with an easy wife/family-friendly interface all run from the remote.

I also might hook the settop box to the frontend and rig it to where all cable shows are recorded on the frontend and all basic cable shows are recorded on the backend.

I'm also looking in to turning on clustering services so they can share the CPU load when transcoding.

[firstadopter]

I'm thinking of building a new silent HTPC box. I just want a basic analog dual tuner system in the smallest possible reasonable form factor at the lowest price? Also it has to be very quiet.

My first crack:

Silverstone Black SG01 Media Cube Case - $144.99
Seasonic S12-330W - $59
Hauppage WinTV-PVR500 (already have one)
512MB of PC2700 RAM (already have one)
300GB Seagate HD - $135 (probably pick it up cheaper during a rebate sale)
Zalman CNPS 7000-ACLU CPU fan - $29.99
ASRock 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250 ATX AMD Motherboard - $48.99
AMD Sempron 64 2600+ - $68.00
USB-UIRT IR blaster - (already have one)
Tivo Remote Control - (already have one)

I would love comments?

[Leica]

The MacMini (solo) at $599 running WinXP (yes WinXP!) makes an awesome HTPC. Super silent and super small.

I have a MacMini Dual Core and since 2 days I have been running it with WinXP and it is amazing. Better than any PC!

And for video it is VERY good too! It can even deinterlace 1080i Hi-Def MPEG-2 transport streams! Wow!

Of course you can also run Mac OS X and Front Row...

[firstadopter]

I have a Mac Mini (PowerPC) and think its great and could make a great PVR. I do want more storage without using external USB drives and the dual tuner capability.

One question, how quiet are the Intel-based Mac Minis? Are they as quiet as the original PowerPC Mac Minis?

[arogan]

The main thing I would look at is the video card if you ever plan to decode HDTV mpeg2 streams. I've done a lot of testing on this front.

My best guess at MINIMUM HDTV payback requirements:
- athlon 2400 xp or greater cpu (maybe you can squeak by with a 2000xp)
- a fully compliant directx 9 video card with DXVA support
- A good mpeg2 decoder that can handle ac3 5.1 and use DXVA. I use powerdvd 6. Make sure the directshow rendering path is:
(S) --> MPEG-2 Demultiplexer --> CyberLink Video/SP Decoder --> (R)
(S) --> MPEG-2 Demultiplexer --> CyberLink Audio Decoder --> (R)

With a gf3 card (dx 8.1) my 2400 xp could NOT playback hdtv smoothly. CPU just couldn't cut it. With a 9600 non pro (dx9), same cpu it played back perfectly smooth, no dropped frames, and only used around 40% cpu.

Also not all TV out is created equal. I like built by ATI cards. Currently a pretty good cheap option is the ATI Radeon 9550 (frys has it for $80 no rebates). It's full dx9 (no shader 3.0 though I don't think), DXVA, component out 720p/1080i with optional cable, and no fan.

If you have the cash maybe go 939 nf4 ultra and a venice core amd64 3000 for around $90 for the mb (dfi, asus) and $121 for the cpu. It's a lot more power (though I guess you don't really need it) for not much more money.

[firstadopter]

Thanks everyone. I forgot to add a video card. LOL. I was thinking a cheap GeForce FX5200 ($42) with DVI and S-Video.

What do I need to record OTA HDTV? Are there special video cards for that?

[arogan]

http://aroganworld.blogspot.com/2006/02/microsoft-windows-media-center-edition.html

Just search on the word Fusion.

myHD is another popular one IF you don't care about MCE (or any other 3rd party) support.

[firstadopter]

Do you think a FX5200 and a Venice AMD cpu would be able to decode HDTV streams from the Fusion?

[arogan]

Well I poked around nvidia's site and couldn't confirm if the 5200 has DXVA support. It's a dx9 for sure but no idea if it does dxva. Also, if you want to go the nvidia pure video route you will need at least a 6200 which should be around $50. Lets just say I wouldn't get a card that didn't support dxva if you ever plan on doing hdtv. With prices around $50 (saphire 9550 is only $45 after MIR from newegg) there's no reason not too.

[arogan]

I wrote up my hdtv playback test results:
http://aroganworld.blogspot.com/2006/04/hdtv-playback-and-general-directshow.html

[firstadopter]

Thanks man. I now plan on getting this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814127203

Nvidia 6200 fan-less for only $54 with HDTV component output/DVI/Svideo/VGA.

[arogan]

Wow nice find: HDTV cables included (that's like $30 right there from the ati side), MSI name brand card, dvi support, and good price. Seems like a really good value. You'll have to let me know what you think the tv out quality is like when you get it all up and running.

[Leica]

One question, how quiet are the Intel-based Mac Minis? Are they as quiet as the original PowerPC Mac Minis?

It is the quietest computer that I know of. The fan is almost silent. If you shut off everything in your room and listen carefully and close by, then you can hear it.

It is amazing.

I am getting a Panasonic 50 Inch Plasma (1366x768) and I am going to buy another MacMini to drive it. Originally I was planning for a PC, but now having experienced the silence of the MacMini I am leaning towards it.

I don't need built in TV Tuner cards or DVR capability, so that is not a problem for me. Also I don't need built in storage as I have a 2TB (500GB x 4) media server. And the MacMini has GigaBit too! So accessing the server is quicker than the built in hard drive!

I love the MacMini. If only it was alive and female, and I'd marry the thing in a heartbeat and have my own little offsrping MiniMacMinis... :)

[Leica]

For a video card, if you want to view MPEG-2 1080i streams, then this is my experience:-

6600GT - some frames skip every few seconds. Watchable but not fun.
7800GT - awesome. very few frames skipped. Only on complex scenes. Very watchable but not perect.
7800GTX - perfect no frames skipped. Can't get any better. Sheer beauty.

6200 - forget it! Manages about 15fps or so.
5200 and other 5xxx - They Bob it. So you get 1920x540 instead of 1920x1080. Terrible!

So for the newer ones I assume the 7600GT would be able to handle 1080i MPEG-2 pretty well, almost as good as the old 7800GT.

See the NVidia Pure Video comparision table:-

http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html

Note that they are overly optimistic. My experience is more true.

[Leica]

The 6200 does not do "Spatial-Temporal De-Interlacing" according to NVidia's chart. So it will do BOB de-interlacing and you lose HALF the resolution right away...

[firstadopter]

Thanks for the helpful info Leica. It looks like I won't be watching HDTV on this box. I really want silence and cheap price, so those high end 7000 series cards are prob out of my range right now.

Hell I have no idea if there is HDTV OTA reception in my town anyway (I don't live in a big city).

I'll just stick with SDTV for now and enjoy a fun quiet dual tuner PVR with MAME games.

When I get a 40-50 inch plasma (2007? 2008?), I'll do an upgrade. But for my 27" Samsung HDTV, this box should be fine.

Mac Mini sure are sexy and quiet. I love my PowerPC one and use it as my primary computing platform. Even though my PC is much faster, OS X and silence is a much better combo for browsing the web and email.

[firstadopter]

Have you guys tried: http://www.meedio.com/

It's pretty snazzy UI, plays DVD ISOs, etc. I'm playing with the free trial, it already crashed on me once though.

Anyone know how reliable it is?

[arogan]

Wow that's crazy on the nvidia side. My ancient ati 9600 non-pro (no fan) plays 1080i mpeg2 hdtv with NO dropped frames, perfectly smooth and only around 40% cpu utilization. My friend just got a ati 9550 so I'll let you know if he gets similar results with that card.

As far as Meedio I use to use it all the time when it was called myHTPC and was FREE. The TV parts of it were never very stable back then IMO. Since it went commercial I haven't looked at it. It was ok but in the end I ended up scrapping myHTPC and wrote my on media hub software.

Leica, great info. I was wondering what decoder were you using during your tests. Was it pure video?

[firstadopter]

I gave up on Meedio. It has a great UI and eye candy, but stability sucks. All kind of memory errors, BLAH!

[firstadopter]

I ordered the MSI 6200 Nvida card and a 380 watt Seasonic. I'm going to try it out on my current PC first before moving them over to a full HTPC.

[stupot42]

I've been toying with building a HTPC for a while now, but still lack the cash. It's near the top of my todo list tho on the Hardware front. I'd be really interested to see photos of peoples hardware setups and screenshots of the software people are using if you guys have the time. It would be a great starting point.

[firstadopter]

My htpc setup currently is just my computer (ugly Antec case) connected to my 27" Samsung TV. Nothing impressive to look at.

So I got the Seasonic power supply today and the MSI Nvidia 6200.

The Seasonic power supply works really well and is amazingly quiet. The power supply install was pretty pain-free.

The MSI is super quiet (no fan). I tried it with my 2001FP and the VGA quality (not DVI) is definitely A LOT worse than my ATI 9700. I tried it with my TV. S-Video connection looks fantastic, much better than the ATI 9700 S-Video TV out. However I can't seem to get the HDTV/component cables to work. The screen comes out really blue where you can't make out the colors.

I'll be using the S-Video output for now since it looks great.

Another problem is now that my powersupply and video card are quiet, all I hear are the annoying CPU fan and hard-drive noises. The quest for pure silence never ends. Looks like I'll have to pick up the Zalman CPU fan.

[htpc_guy]

hey, here are some useful home theater pc links, don't know if they'll help or not:

http://www.htpcmediacenter.com - Beginners guide to HTPC's

http://www.watchingtvonyourpc.com - Guide to TV Tuner Cards for watching television shows on your computer

http://www.pctotvcable.com - How to connect your computer to your television

http://buildhtpc.com - An easy to understand beginners guide to building an htpc

http://www.tvinpc.com - Future place to buy the best computer and home theater parts

[TheAngryIntern]

good links, htpc_guy! thanks! Oh, and welcome to First Adopter!

[stupot42]

Hey guys. I'm back on this old chesnut again. Looking at building a HTPC, and I'm looking at Windows Media Center Edition 2005. I know it's the evil empire and all, but it's got the wags (wives and girlfriends) vote as being nice and easy, and it can also double as a file server without too much messing about.

One thing I want to know however is this... My current PVR gets it's channel listings and guide over the air (OTA) once a week. How does the MCE get the listings? Does it also get them OTA or does it grab them from the internet?

I'd also be interested to know the experiences of anyone who runs MCE in the UK.

[arogan]

I run MCE but only in the USA. For me the data is grabbed over the internet. My guess is MS contracts with different guide data providers depending on what region you are in. For us I believe it's zap2it.com which is also where tivo gets it's data and xmltv for usa.

You get roughly 13 days of guide data.

[firstadopter]

If you have some time, try http://www.gbpvr.com/. It's not as sexy looking as MCE, but it gets the job done (my wife thinks it's fine). Plus it's free and in my opinion the most stable PVR software vs. the others.

[stupot42]

Thanks guys... that's what I had presumed, arogan. I know you use it in the US, but I'd still be interested in your experiences. How does your family find it? This is the most important thing for me. My missus indulges me with these things, but if they don't work the first 2 or 3 times she uses them, then that's it. It's banished. I nearly had that problem with our current PVR. I had to get a signal booster after she told me she couldn't stand the breaks in picture and artifacts which we get in a storm or bad weather. Luckiy I manage to persuade her to press on with it, and now she loves it.

Rendition, do you use gbpvr? I had looked at it after reading through this thread again, but decided that the usability factor had to be there. Have they ironed out the bugs?

[stupot42]

I've just been looking at GBpvr and that might be a better option for the moment for me. I could trial it on my current system, by just bringing my main ring into the living room, and all I'd need to buy for the moment would be a tuner card, which I can always transfer to my media PC when the time comes.

Cheers rendition.

[stupot42]

Sorry for the multiple posts guys.

Rendition, do you use the USB-UIRT with GBPVR? just been trying to decide how to do the remote stuff. Was thinking about buying a MCE remote and programming GBPVR to use it. Haven't checked out the potential of that, but it might work.

[arogan]

fyi, I have a usb-uirt which I love (I use it with girder, no experience with gbpvr).

Also another option if you don't want to move your pc is the Media MVP (http://aroganworld.blogspot.com/2006/04/hauppauge-media-mvp.html) which you can usually find for around $100 USD. I believe it has tight integration with gbpvr. Again I use several medai mvp's in my house but no experience with gbpvr (I wrote my on pvr software). MVP has no HD support (so you are stuck with SD mpeg2 and it can transcode other formats on the fly like divx,xvid,etc).

Another option is getting an xbox and modding it or softmodding it add dropping this on it.
http://www.xboxmediacenter.de/
Again no HD support.

[firstadopter]

No problem man, post as MUCh as you want. I actually like MORE POSTS on here. :)

GB-PVR generally works fine and is stable. The only feature that it doesn't have that I miss is the ability to watch the beginning of a program while it's been recorded. Tivo did that.

I do use USB-IRT with an old Tivo remote. The software has support for USB-IRT. However the range of my Tivo remote with the USB-IRT is like 5-6 feet. I don't know if it's a problem with my Tivo remote or USB-IRT. So basically when I use my remote, I have to get up and walk 2-3 feet closer.

Strange I know. I don't think other people have this problem though.

Check out this forum: http://forums.gbpvr.com/

Has tons of the information and the author of the program is very responsive and diligent in responding. I don't know why he works so hard for free.

[firstadopter]

btw, Fry's (outpost.com) every few days has ridiculous Seagate hard-drive sales. I just picked up a 400GB Seagate for $90 shipped for my HTPC, so I can put more media on it. What a deal! With HTPC even 240GB on my 2 HDs isn't enough.

[stupot42]

Thanks for all the info guys. I've decided to do a bit of experimentation before I splash out and buy an entire new rig for it. I'm not using my gaming rig much at the moment as my BB connection is down, so I'm going to move it to the living room and play with that.

I ordered an dual tuner pinacle card yesterday which I can transfer if I decide to build a new rig, and after surfing the GBPVR forums and wiki for a bit found that the media centre 2005 version 2 remote and IR reciever is natively supported, so I ordered one of them off ebay too. If I decide to go down the media centre route I can still make good use! It made more sense as the MCE remote was £20 and the USB-IRT was £18 plus I had to find a new remote to use, so this seems more sensible.

The tuner card should arrive today which means I can experiment over the weekend, and the remote should arrive early next week, hopefully by which time I'll be used to how everything works.

One thing I couldn't find that I would be interested in the answer to is how many tuners GBPVR can take. Apparently MCE 2005 will cope with upto 3, but if I could add a second dual tuner card and record 3 shows and watch 1 or record 4 shows I'd be in TV heaven! Any idea Rendition? Tried searching the GBPVR forum for the answer, but you have to enter the code from an image, and it won't load... asked 5 mates on MSN to look too and none of then could see it either, also couldn't register for the same reason. Bummer.

The Xbox media center is another interesting idea. I'll deffinately be reading more about that, you can pick up a second hand one in the UK for £40, so that's a very tempting idea.

I'm going to be keeping my eyes peeled for a big drive in the UK too... only got 80gb free on my current pc, and I can see that disappearing fast!

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll keep you posted on my progress!

Edit: Also forgot to mention that we dont get HD OTA in the UK, and I heard that it's unlikely to ever happen, and I don't subscribe to HD satelite because it's a rip off at the moment. Might when it's more reliable and the price comes down, but for the moment SD is enough for me, so none of your worries about HD are too much of a worry for me Arogan. Thanks for all your info!

[stupot42]

Well, I spent all weekend messing about with my PC and GBPVR and it seems that the TV card I bought isn't supported and even with guidance from the forum it's far too much hassle. I've ordered a 320gb hard drive for the system, and a copy of Windows Media Center 2005, so we'll get that going over next weekend. It's a pitty too, cos GBPVR looked sweet. The more I read, the more I liked the look of it... so many add ons etc. If only there was a dual tuner card supported by it! However MCE looks to have a good group of people developing add-ons for that too, so we'll wait and see.

I'm pretty excited about all this (how sad is that)... I was amazed at how easy it was to get my rig hooked up to the TV, and picture looks good, so fingers crossed this will all work well. I'm just trying not to let on to the missus how much I'm spending on all this. Already spent the best part of £200 on MCE, TV card and new HDD. It does mean tho that I'll only need to buy a mobo, ram, DVD drive and video card to get it on it's own rig (i've got a case).

I think getting a new rig will need to wait til post Xmas tho. I'll let you know when the rest of the kit has arrived and I've had tinkering time!

EDIT: Also found another problem with my PC whilst tinkering. With my gaming PC having always been wireless I've never used the network ports on the PC, and I found that I couldn't get either of them (there's 2) to grab an IP from my router. It's bizare. I'm thinking these's some software on it that's causing the problem, but I spent 8 hours messing with settings etc over the weekend and to no avail. I think the PC needs a format. :( Another task for another day. Got too much that I want to transfer to the other PC before I can do that. Ho-hum!

[firstadopter]

Yeah I used the old PC turning to HTPC reason to build a new PC as well. :)

For the HTPC I just bought cheap 802.11b wireless PCI card from newegg and it seems to work well in downloading the data.

For dual tuner, I use the Hauppuage PVR500 which works well with GBPVR.

[stupot42]

It is certainly a good excuse to build a new PC. I'm not sure I'll get round to it all too soon, but I certainly intend to.

I'm not too impressed with my pinnacle card. Certainly wouldn't buy it again. The support for it is terrible. You can't download the drivers from the website. You can't use it without registering it (what's that all about?)... you have to register the card and get an activation code before you can install the provided drivers. I can understand Adobe using the same system because it's software, it could be a copy, but with hardware? It's not as if I've built a home brew version of the their card and want to use their drivers! The card works fine with the provided software, but no-one else seems to support the thing. It says on the box "Windows Media Center 2005 certified", and yet they don't even provide the drivers for that on the CD... you have to download them. That's just shoddy. Pinnacle really need to get their act together.

I might flog it on ebay and buy the Hauppuage PVR500 too... although I can only find the single tuner version at the moment. All the forums insist that there is a dual tuner DVB-T version out there somewhere tho.

[arogan]

I think both Rendition and I use only Hauppuage and fusion cards. Hauppuage are the only analog tuners I will use because it has THE best 3rd party software support, and it is supported by almost every PVR package out there. FYI, in the states we can often pick up the pvr 150 (single tuner) cards for around $70 when they go on sale at Circuit City. Also, nothing stops you from dropping two pvr 150's into a single box. Amazon has them for pretty cheap too.

I currently run 3 X pvr 250's and one pvr 150 (not all in the same box).
Fyi, I've recorded around 2154 shows over the last couple of years with the pvr's and have had very few issues.

[stupot42]

Thanks for the info Arogan. I'm deffinately thinking I should have gone Hauppuage now. The Pinnacle was actually more expensive than 2 Hauppuage pvr 150s that I saw somewhere, although only 1 or 2 quid. I'll give the Pinnacle card a chance, but I can see it ending up on ebay in the near future.

[arogan]

For a ton of useful Hauppauge Info check out:
http://www.shspvr.com/
Their forums are pretty good too.

[firstadopter]

Yeah I got the Hauppauge I think b/c of Arogan's advice. No issues at all. They are definitely the most supported PVR cards in terms of software. From what I read the actual video quality might be slightly worse than Nvidia's PVR cards, but it's not worth switching due to the compatibility reason.

[arogan]

Oh and that 2154 shows recorded number I mentioned earlier. I just realized that is the number I've watched NOT the number I've recorded. I MAYBE watch 2-5% of what I record. Most shows just get auto deleted as new shows get recorded. So I've probably recorded closer to 43,000 shows so far. If that doesn't test reliability I don't know what does.

[stupot42]

Well, I hope to test MCE tonight. I ordered a copy which is due to arrive today, so with any luck I'll have a working setup by tomorrow. If the Pinnacle card I've bought works without issue then I'll probably stick with it. I can't send it back now... the cat's shredded the box, which is going to devalue it's Ebay price too, but if it's iffy then I'll ebay it, and see if I can find a replacement box.

Bloody hell Arogan... 43000 shows! I know you've got a major setup there, but that's insane. How many of them do you actually have stored right now? If you work on a 6gb per hour and each show been 20 mins without adverts then that's
14333.3 hours of shows making 86 <i>terrabytes</i> of shows if you had them all stored.

Also tinkered with my mobos onboard LAN last night, and it seems that the fix I found yesterday didn't work. If I disable them in the bios they just disappear in XP. I tried both with the other turned off and they still don't work. I think a reinstall is in order, but with the new hard drive and MCE I'll be doing that anyway. I'm going to take a spare PCI NIC home with me from work to so that I can use that if it's just that the onboard LAN is knackered.

[stupot42]

Just had a call to tell me that my copy of MCE has only just been dispatched and will be with me tomorrow... bit annoyed, but what can I do. Apparently they were let down with a shipment themselves. This thing just seems to be taking longer and longer all the time! Ah well :(

[arogan]

I run 3 machines with rcTV(my own program) each with a single pvr even though rcTV is able to handle multiple machines each with multiple cards and/or hard drives from a single schedule/season pass list with conflict resolution across all devices. These are all SD which runs around 2.2GB per hour at the highest mpeg2 quality setting I use (6gb/hr is about right for HD recordings). Some shows use less because I set a lower quality setting (like the kids shows).

I also run a MCE box which does my HD recording to feed my x360. That only has a 300GB hd in it.

so some stats for rcTV (excludes MCE box) as of last night (I get a daily report emailed to me):
Available Space:
master - PVRM-Available space: \\master\d\mvp\1c-m\ - 144,926,181,440
master - PVRM-Available space: \\master\e\mvp\1a-m\ - 542,347,264
master - PVRM-Available space: \\master\f\mvp\1b-m\ - 227,322,036,224
slave1 - PVRslave1-Available space: \\slave1\c\mvp\2b-slave1\ - 66,647,673,426
slave1 - PVRslave1-Available space: \\slave1\d\mvp\2a-slave1\ - 82,975,520,256
slave2 - PVRslave2-Available space: \\slave2\d\mvp\3-slave2\ - 106,651,791,360
Total: 629,065,549,970

Used Space:
master - PVRM-Usedspace: \\master\d\mvp\1c-cw\ - 55,073,818,560
master - PVRM-Usedspace: \\master\e\mvp\1a-cw\ - 99,410,808,640
master - PVRM-Usedspace: \\master\f\mvp\1b-cw\ - 172,683,480,276
slave1 - PVRslave1-Usedspace: \\slave1\c\mvp\2b-slave1\ - 3,352,326,574
slave1 - PVRslave1-Usedspace: \\slave1\d\mvp\2a-slave1\ - 97,024,479,744
slave2 - PVRslave2-Usedspace: \\slave2\d\mvp\3-slave2\ - 111,106,706,748
Total: 538,651,620,542

Program Count:
master - PVRCW-Count: \\master\d\mvp\1c-cw\ - 26
master - PVRCW-Count: \\master\e\mvp\1a-cw\ - 92
master - PVRCW-Count: \\master\f\mvp\1b-cw\ - 120
slave1 - PVRslave1-Count: \\slave1\c\mvp\2b-slave1\ - 12
slave1 - PVRslave1-Count: \\slave1\d\mvp\2a-slave1\ - 73
slave2 - PVRslave2-Count: \\slave2\d\mvp\3-slave2\ - 92
Total: 415

So at any point in time I have over 400 shows to choose from (mix of my shows, wife's cooking shows, kids shows) using around 538gb of space with around 630gb free right now. So total I've only got about 1.1TB dedicated to rcTV. With 3 pvr's I can handle up to a triple conflict (which is pretty rare). I currently have 120 season passes defined.

Even though the shows are distributed over different machines and hard drives I can play all of them back through a single consolidated interface using the built in rcTV player (with usbuirt support) or several other ways: media mvp that I mentioned before, xbmc, or x360 through mce with some drive shares mapped. So distributed recordings, centralized scheduling, distributed play back (got it available in 4 rooms right now which is how many tv's I have).

Space is automatically managed by a keep count on the season pass level. If you say I want to keep the last 5 shows then as a 6th gets recorded the oldest one of the 5 gets deleted (well unless you mark it as saved).

I'm working on integrating fusion HD support into rcTV right now. It's almost done.

rcTV also handles channel changing on external cable boxes through either serial or firewire (depending on the model).

This is my second pvr system I've written. The first one was in vb6 which I used for a couple of years. I scrapped that and started over from scratch. It's all written in C# and I just recently migrated it to vs 2005 2.0 framework. It's been almost 2 yrs since I started it but it still has a LONG way to go. It's a complete bear to setup. In fact the only other two people who are running it are also programmers. But once it's all up and running it's pretty darn stable and reliable.

My kids are so spoiled they don't even understand the concept of live TV. They get confused with the concept of commercials and the inability to re-watch something immediately.

[stupot42]

That's a pretty amazing setup. I don't think I could be bothered to sit down and program my own PVR when there are so many others out there, but it does sound like you've got something unique there!

You're right about kids these days. It won't be long before we're the old farts reminiscing about the old days when we had to watch things when they were being aired, and that we had to sit through the adverts! I certainly think there's a TV revolution coming. Certainly in the UK it won't be long before most people are watching things on-demand via phone lines rather than the current methods. Our infrastructure doesn't support OTA HD at the moment, and the powers that be have said they have no intention of doing it. So HD viewers are going to have to go Sat or Cable for their HD and it looks like the telecom companies might be in there too. Bring on the revolution!

[stupot42]

I seem to be stumbling from one problem to another on this one. Last night I did a clean install of XP on my new drive to see if I could get my LAN working, and thankfully I've sorted that problem. However, I've come across another. The new drive I bought a Seagate Barracuda 7200.10, which the website I bought it from advertises as "Whisper Quiet", is the noisiest drive I've had since the mid 1990s. I can only presume it's had a knock in transit. It wasn't very well packed. :( I'm going to use it over the weekend to test things out whilst I wait for a reply to my email about it, but ultimately I think it needs replacing. What a nightmare!

[arogan]

http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

download and install speedfan (it's free).
go to the hard drive SMART tab where it will give you a full diagnostic of all the data collected by smart to see how the drive is.

[stupot42]

Thanks for the advise man. I've used Speedfan before but didn't realise it had such good HDD analysis tools. I'll check that out when I get home from work.

[firstadopter]

Seagates should be quiet. I've had 4-5 Seagates in my life and they are quiet. I got one Seagate once from newegg.com which was loud, I returned it and got a quiet one back. You should return it. Seagate's primary selling point is acoustics.

[stupot42]

Well Speedfan confirmed my fears. It gave the drive a 0% health rating and said that it was failing to spin up at the first attempt. It said that failure was imminent!

I've put in for a return, but they take 2 working days to process it... which is rubbish in my opinion.

However, I started playing with MCE last night on another HDD and I'm quite impressed with it. It's nice and easy to use. But my TV card doesn't work with MCE. I spent 3 hours last night talking to Pinnacle tech support and they talked me through all sorts of things to try, but it still doesn't find the card. It works fine with their software but Media Centre refuses to see it. I can't believe they can print on the box "Designed for Windows Media Centre Edition 2005" when it just doesn't work. It's not even as if I'm clueless about hardware and stuff. Without meaning to blow my own trumpet, if I can't do it what chance does the average Joe on the street with minimal to no knowledge going to do it?

Ebay has a TV card coming it's way. Worse still is I've now spent the best part of £250 on the card, HDD, remote, and MCE, and that's all the money gone for this month. I'm going to have to wait a while now before buying the Hauppauge to replace it. And if I'd just gone and bought the Hauppauge in the first place I could have stuck with my copy of XP Pro and used GBPVR. Ho-Hum!

[stupot42]

Well, I got a new hard drive, and I came home and thought I'd give my tuner card one more chance, and low and behold I got it working first time. I can only presume that it was down to the knackered hard drive. I'm going to keep this card for a while to see how it performs. It seems ok so far.

[firstadopter]

The new HD is quieter right?

[stupot42]

I haven't even heard it yet. When I first installed it I actually had to put my ear next to it to see if it was even spinning up. My PC wouldn't post, and I was thinking "here we go again", but I'd knocked my NIC when putting it in, so popped that back in properly and it was fine.

I can't believe quite how quiet it actually is.

I actually couldn't wait in the end. My drive went back, and I've been told it could be 14 days before they even look at the drive. So I went out and bought a 250gb (biggest I could get) Seagate Barracuda. It was a bit of a rip off, but I'll end up with half a terrabyte in the PC once I get the new 320gb. I think the plan is to use the 250gb for programs, music, photos etc and then we'll use the 320gb solely for films, TV recordings etc. Should be good once I get it all working.

One problem I have found is that my TV reception is weak, but my set top box gets a great reception. Very few problems with that. However, the tuner card I've bought seems to think the signal is too weak a lot of the time. I went and bought a booster too, but it actually reduces signal strength (true on both MCE and my set top box), which is a real pain in the backside. I think I'm going to have to find a better quality one from somewhere, or stump out for a new aerial, which I'm not doing before we move house. Either way... it's pretty good to finally have it working.

Something that might be of use to others is to know that I had the TV tuner working and then installed Rollup 2 and it's associated patches. This seemed to cause Media Centre to become very unstable with regular crashes, and no tuner found. Thankfully I found this:
http://blogs.msdn.com/astebner/archive/2005/12/27/507654.aspx
It's a blog about MCE, and this particular article about people who have problems with previously stable systems after installing Rollup 2. This pointed me to a program called MCE repair tool (available here: http://blogs.msdn.com/peterrosser/archive/2005/10/20/482974.aspx) which forcibly re-registers all Media Centre binaries and services. Once I'd run that, hey presto everything was fine and dandy again.

[arogan]

There are only two signal amps I would recommend:

I use this for digital cable and cable modem
http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-484095-001-00-Signal-Booster/dp/B000066E6Y/sr=8-1/qid=1162409806/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-9900431-2135935?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

and this for OTA ATSC (which I guess doesn't apply to you)
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm

Everything else I've tried always made things WORSE.

[stupot42]

Thanks for the advise Arogan. Been doing a bit of research on the signal booster/amp thing, and it seems that the pre amps are the only way to go. The only way an amp further down the line is any good is if you have a great signal already, and then chances are you wouldn't even think about buying one! It seems I'm boosting more interference than actual signal, and hence degrading the signal. It seems to be an all too common occurrence. I've seen lots of posts with similar problems. Like I said in the last post, I'm not doing anything to the aerial before I move, and that includes installing a pre amp, so I'll sit on the system until we move and see what it's like in the new place.

I'm loving the ability to watch my videos and ISOs on the TV without having to burn them to DVD, and I'm generally very impressed. To be honest not having the TV reliable isn't bothering me at the moment and it'll give me a chance to experiment with some programs etc. I'm looking for a reliable way to send the computer to sleep after it's recorded a program, and I found this (MCE standby tool):
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hveijk/mst/indexe.htm
Which seems to fit the bill. My missus keeps complaining about the fan noise when it's not even on, so I'm hoping that I might be able to sort that out with this little beauty! We'll have to wait and see how things work out.

Anyway, the adventure continues.

[arogan]

Yes, you correct. I should have noted that the motorola is used before splits. Basically boosting an already pretty good signal so it doesn't degrade as much through all the splits I have (and I have way more splits than what is recommended). Also, stick to rg6 vs rg59 coax cable which helps a bit.

Nice find on that stand by utility. I've gotta give that a try.

[firstadopter]

What programs do you guys use to watch DVD ISOs?

Using Daemon tools and Cyberlink DVD player is getting cumbersome. I wish there was a way just to open up and play an ISO like any other media file.

[arogan]

If you are just storing a bunch of dvd's on your hard drive why have them in ISO format? Just rip them and leave them as vob's in a video_ts directory then use the powerdvd feature to open dvd from hard drive. It will at least save you the extra step of mounting/unmounting an iso.

[firstadopter]

Ahhh that will work!

[stupot42]

Yep, I'm with Arogan on that one. I have video_ts files of most films, and some ISOs. I've just found a program for MCE called My Movies 2 which I found at www.thegreenbutton.com which keeps a database of your DVDs on your HDD and allows you to watch through MCE nice and easy.

I've been quite impressed. I'll post a review tomorrow.

[stupot42]

Here as promised is my review of My Movies 2.

My Movies 2 is essentially a rip and watch program for MCE. It allows you to rip a DVD to your HDD and then keeps a database (It's actually an mdb file, so you can open it in Access) of all the DVDs on your computer.

It describes itself as:

My Movies for Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition is the ultimate movie collection management and playback tool. With My Movies you are able to index your movies with automatically downloaded data from the internet, and then browse movies, actors, directors and much more. You can share your movie database to multiple clients, and configure each client to its own parental control limitation, and require pin # to view the full collection. My Movies is available in about 10 different languages, and movie data can be downloaded in English, German, French or Japanese. With My Movies you can experience your movie collection in a way you never thought possible, filtering your collection by genres, actors, directors, MPAA parental level and much more. My Movies can even help you copy your DVD's to hard drive storage for easy playback.

I've enjoyed using this program, and it's certainly made my catalogue easy to browse from MCE now, which I like. I do have some MPEG TV shows which I've been given by friends, and some DIVX vids too, which MCE coped with already, but this is a cut above and means I don't have to convert all my films to DIVX.

It's got a nice interface and is a very powerful tool. The database back end means that you can browse and search by just about any info it records. IE, Actor, title, director, release year, genre, watched/not watched, rating, latest added... there's probably more but I can't remember them off the top of my head. It looks nice, and sticks to the MCE style pretty closely. The general view gives you a picture of the DVD sleeve image and a title below (much like the standard My Music section). The images are a good size for my TV, and it's easy to navigate with the MCE remote.

I'll talk you through my interactions from the start.

I downloaded the program (available here: http://www.mymovies.name) and installed it. The install was easy and quick, with minimal changing of settings. Once installed I opened the MCE program and opened My Movies from the main page. It has a nice option during install to let you choose to put it on the main list, or in the "More Programs" section. I opened it up and as it was the first run it gave me some instruction on how to use it, which was helpful. The first thing I tried was ripping a DVD to my hard drive.

The ripping program was easy to use, and was possible from within the MCE program which I thought would be great, but I found a couple of major flaws. The first was the ripping process brings up a screen that says "Choose where to store your DVD" or words to that effect, but never actually gave me that option. Instead it just added a folder with the name of the DVD to the root of my C: drive. Not ideal, but you could live with it I suppose. However that wasn't the worst of it. After the RIP had completed I found that the resulting "On-line" (as they call it, meaning version of the DVD on your HDD) version was not watchable. It was jumpy, the sound was out of sink, or running double speed, depending on scene, and at times all I got was a black screen until I pressed the 'i' button on the remote. Things weren't looking good for My Movies.

Next I thought I'd see how it coped with a film I already had on my HDD. I couldn't figure out how to do this inside MCE. I'm pretty sure it's possible, but I didn't spend much time messing, and I wanted to try out another feature of My Movies.

My Movies provides another program that runs in stand windows mode called "Manage my collection", which confusingly uses the green button image. For me I thought this meant it would launch in the MCE ehome program, but it doesn't. It was only because I'd read about it on the website that I knew the

[stupot42]

feature was there and ran in normal windows. For me, this is the easiest way to add movies to the database. It took a bit of getting used to, but in the end is easy to use. You enter a search string (the name of the DVD) and then choose from a list of info providers. These include Amazon (UK, US, JP, CA etc), IMDB.com and some others. In practice I found that the only useful ones are Amazon US and IMDB.com. The others just provide the title and an image, where as IMDB and Amazon US seem to provide actor, director and all the other info, although not for every title. You can of course enter all this info manually if you want to, but who really does. If My Movies could find a more reliable data source for this info then it would be a far better tool. The lack of info from UK sources for UK only releases was disappointing, and Amazon UK seemed to have trouble finding some of my titles IE House Seson 1 box set; all it would offer was Little House on the Prairie! So I'm using the US versions.

The info is generally very good, and if you have a DVD like House Season 1 you can select each disc and enter them into the database separately (only real downside to this is it makes you search for the info every time) and then add another entry (IE for the 6 discs of house I entered 7) and then on the final one click the "box set" button to add the other titles to this one, and then another box to click to indicate that this title doesn't have a video attached, it's just a place holder.

There's a similar feature that allows you to add multiple discs for one title, like the multi disc version of TLOTRs boxes. However I found that using this multi disc feature caused My Movies to freeze in Media Centre and not even open. So even for this option I'll be sticking to the box set way of doing things, although it could just be that I'm not doing something right.

So, once I'd imported some movies that I'd pre ripped, how did they work? Fantastic. Just like watching a normal DVD. I think it's just the My Movies ripping tool isn't very good. Maybe not designed for UK DVD encryption or something like that. I've found that ripping with DVD Shrink (http://www.dvdshrink.org/) works well for me. Near flawless results, and the ability to compress the DVD is you desire thus saving disc space (I particularly like this for some of my 80s TV shows I have on DVD where the quality doesn't require full DVD bitrates anyway).

So to conclude, I love the program, it puts movie management software in the hands of the masses. A massive on demand film catalogue when you want it! Perfect. It's only really let down by two things. 1. The poor DVD ripping performance. 2. The less than perfect DVD info data providers. However, I can live with both of these things and think it's a brilliant addition to an MCE setup.

[arogan]

the best ripper:
http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvd.html

It's not free but it is constantly updated.

[stupot42]

Well, got the new Seagate 320Gb drive, and it's as quiet as a whisper. I literally can't hear it. Now if I could just afford to buy a fanless graphics card, and super quiet PSU I'd have a nice quiet system.

I can't believe the difference in noise between the Seagate and my Maxtor drive I have in my gaming rig. The Maxtor is one noisy bugger! I was considering formatting it and extending the 320Gb partition onto it for movies, but it would make the system much more noisy... however it would give me a total disc space in my media centre of 700Gb-ish.

[firstadopter]

So I was having problems getting HD recording with my GB-PVR software and my 1gig RAM, 2.6 ghz p4, and nvidia 6200 graphics card system. Basically in dozens of different cofigurations, codecs, VMR overlay etc. it would either not have the right audio sync (4-5 seconds off), wouldn't play at all, or the video would stutter. I was ready to give up, but Arogan said his similar power system worked fine with HD with the Cyberlink decoder.

Not to be dismayed, I just tried BeyondTV trial and I couldn't get the program guide to work on my HD OTA antennae side.

So now I'm trialing SageTV. It would stutter using the SageTV decoder codec, but for some reason Cyberlink seems to work ok. Live TV works for once and HD recording playbck has some stutters here and there, but it works much better than other. It's not perfect yet, but it's watchable for once. I'm going to try and tweak it to get it working 100%.

[stupot42]

I've noticed I've started to get some stuttering when recording some programs and I think it's either the processor, the graphics card, or the TV card.

As I can get all the channels to record on my Fusion PVR box in the bedroom without stuttering, it seems likely to be the TV card. I've also noticed I don't get some channels on the fusion box that I do on the PC and some on the PC that I don't get on the fusion box. So, it would seem likely that it's all to do with the tuners.

I think I'm going to upgrade my graphics card to a silent one, and buy another tuner card... probably a hauppage one. I'll put the 660GT in my gaming rig and see if I can get another one to SLI.

[firstadopter]

So my HTPC plays FOX HD fine which is 720p, but stutters on NBC which is 1080i.

I actually came across this site: http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=192&card2=25

On it it shows the specs of my 6200 AGP are like 1/2 my previous card - Radeon 9700. I'll try the 9700 this weekend and see if that helps. It would be a bummer though b/c the Radeon has a loud fan and the 6200 AGP Nvidia card is fanless.

[stupot42]

If the 9700 is better you could always buy a Zalman fanless heatsink... you can normally pick them up on ebay cheaper than from a store. You'd need a well ventilated case if you're going the Zalman route tho. I'm also not 100% sure if there's one available for the 9700, but I'd imagine that there is.

[drshady]

I've had two. The first one broke at the 11 month of the warranty. Its replacement broke on the 13 month of having it. 1 month after the warranty. Both had the same problem overheating frying the video processor.

[stupot42]

That's not good to hear drshady. Sorry to hear that you lost your machine. I don't think I'd ever actually buy one ready built, and I'm not convinced I'd even buy a HTPC case. I'd go the normal case route, which is what I have now. It's just hidden behind the TV. Out of sight, out of mind. Until I get a silent graphics hard tho, you can certainly hear it!

[firstadopter]

I tried installing the 9700 today, but it didn't work cuz my new powersupply (seasonic) didn't have the extra power (floppy) dongle for the 9700. Sigh.

Anyway, i tried DOD: Source on the 42" inch panny using my HTPC at 1270x720. It was pretty sweet gaming on a big screen and since its and old game it ran pretty well even over the 802.11b wireless.

[firstadopter]

I found the power adapter for the 9700. For some reason I'm having problems getting GBPVR working with HD OTA again. However it seems 9700 has much more power than the 6200 and can run HD programming fine.

I may be imagining things, but SD programming and DVDs seems to have much better image quality vs. the Nvidia for some reason, even though it's over DVI. The downside is the Nvidia is fanless. Oh well.

[stupot42]

As as I've mentioned in the past I'm thinking of changing graphics card.... SD TV seems to stutter, and I can only assume it's either the TV card or the graphics card. I was going to upgrade to a more powerful Nvidia card, but if the ATI cards are that much better for TV and DVD then I'll have to look into them too. TV card upgrade is the first port of call tho.

[firstadopter]

SD and HD definitely looks better to my eyes on the ATI 9700 vs. Nvidia 6200. I don't know if I'm imagining things though because it's using the same Cyberlink mpeg decoder and a DVI connection. Rationally I don't think it should matter then no?

Maybe it's just b/c the 9700 is a more powerful GPU vs. the 6200?

[stupot42]

I've been looking at ATI cards with a view to upgrading my Media Centre, but ATI don't seem to do fan less cards, and my missus complains about the whine it currently makes, and my 6600GT is fairly quiet compared to some cards I've owned. I'm therefore looking for a silent card, which limits me to Nvidia.

I'm therefore thinking about the 7600GS 256mb. Probably just the bog standard Leadtek Winfast version with no over clocking or ought. It's dual-link so should support a HDTV, when I finally get round to it, without any problems.

[stupot42]

Well, this weekend I upgraded my TV Card to a Hauppage card which is meant to have a more sensitive reciever, and it has definately improved the image. The quality appears much the same, but the stutter I mentioned seems to have cleared up. It was quite major stutter too... every so often it would seem to miss about 1/2 a second of video, but the audio would be fine. After 2 days viewing, I've not noticed it once, so that's great. However, I do still notice that the channels with text scrolling seem to have the slightest stutter to them. I'm wondering if I have the refresh rate right for my TV. I currently have it set at 50Mhz, which I'm almost certain is correct, but I might have a play with that. I'm going to upgrade the graphics this week too I think. See if that helps.

Has anyone else noticed a stutter/lack of smothness on MCE or TV via computer? I'm presuming it's graphics related, but might be a common MCE thing I supose.

[firstadopter]

The only time I see stutter in the past is when my CPU/GPU combo wasn't fast enough to handle various streams. Once I upgrade one or the other, it got better.

[stupot42]

That's what I was presuming, and my Athlon 64 3200+ should be more than adequate for the job. I would of thought the 6600GT would be enough too, but it would seem that the 6 series Nvidia cards are not all they've cracked up to be for HTPCs.

One thing I did think was that perhaps it's because I'm using the TV out on the card... maybe the DVI would be better suited to cope with the demands. I can't imagine why that would be the case, but I'm trying to think of all eventualities. I'll try the upgrade and see what happens.

[arogan]

The Hauppage card let you tweak the recording bit rates for mpeg2. You can also set ranges for variable bit rate. Max I think is 12mbps which is the max standard for DVD. I think 6-8 is usually plenty for smooth motion.

Fyi, I use wintvcap for my pvr 250 (gbrecorder for pvr 150). Not sure how wintv 2000 handles this (don't use that app much).

[stupot42]

Thanks Arogan, I'll look into that.

[stupot42]

I was looking through the Hauppauge forums for information about stutter, and I came across a thread that was talking about different decoders. I've been using the Nero decoder because it seemed to be working, and it hadn't occurred to me that it might have such a huge effect.

The thread suggested that the decoder could have huge effects, and they suggested the WinDVD codec, so I downloaded and installed that. Whilst I can't uninstall the Nero decoder (nero needs it), I'm pretty sure that MCE is now using the WinDVD codec. The image looks sharper, and the image is a huge amount more smooth!

Only been using it for an hour or so, but so far I think it's answered my prayers!

[firstadopter]

Yea i think I remember using Hauppauge's decoder once. It was not as good as Cyberlinks.

[arogan]

I've had the WORST luck with nero decoders (IMO AVOID AVOID AVOID). Their mpeg2 decoders pretty much suck. What's worse is every time you upgrade nero their stupid decoders become the default again.

Hauppauge work ok and yeah cyberlinks are the best IMO.

use this to help determine which codecs are being used:
http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

[stupot42]

Thanks Arogan. Well, after 6 hours of testing I've dumped the windvd codec. I was having problems timeshifting. It seems a common problem. I could pause and then play live or recorded tv, but if I used rewind or fast forward then the video stopped and after a while would come back, but with the audio and video about 20 seconds out of sync. A common problem on researching.

I'm now testing the Nvidia Purevideo decoder and this one seems good. No stutter any more, but the picture is less sharp than the windvd and the colour looks slightly more muted to my eye. However timeshifting works perfectly, and it's a lot better than the nero codec.

As I'm in testing mode at the moment, I'll give the cyberlink decoders a go as well... I take it I just need power DVD?

Thanks guys.

[firstadopter]

Yea, it's on PowerDVD, which came free with my DVD/RW drive.

[stupot42]

I tried the Cyberlink decoders this evening, and they were ok, but there was a little bit of stutter on the scrolling text I noticed. I think the picture is better than the Nvidia decoders, on a par with the windvd ones, and timeshifting did work, but ultimately the smoothness of the picture is what's important to me, so I'm going to stick with the Nvidia decoder for the moment. I'll try them all again when the new graphics card arrives, although I imagine it has more to do with media centre than it does the graphics card, but you never know. If I get the HDTV, the Cyberlink ones will almost certainly be the better.

Edit: BTW, I found a useful little program from Microsoft that lists your MPEG-2 decoders and lets you select your prefered one. On XP only (and media centre):
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=DE1491AC-0AB6-4990-943D-627E6ADE9FCB&displaylang=en&Hash=KwzrK%2bm1Uo3lYe%2bnRtx6pYZu1%2feLu9gF%2fg961 4rChP6WeXRrgbW5VgE9OQN03bxhrc4N2xjjXcI16LePH%2fpn% 2fg%3d%3d

[firstadopter]

Yikes GB-PVR got bought out. http://www.gbpvr.com/

[arogan]

Just picked up an HDHomerun:
http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/products/hdhomerun

Dude this thing kicks! Think of it as nas but for hdtv OTA and qam.
Just drop this device anywhere on your wired network, split your cable signal or hook up two hdtv antenna's (or mix and match). Now stream that mpeg2 TS over udp to any pc on your network. Watch it in VLC or save it. I've just added support for this for my pvr software and I'll be stress testing it this week. Hopefully 24 records tonight.

Supports most of the pvr software out there.

Oh and there are beta drivers in their forums for mapping qam to ota in MCE. Pretty cool trick since mce only supports ota hdtv.

Overall, NOT for the tivo user. But if you are a pvr homebrew kind of user this thing is amazing.

They even include full source code.

Price isn't bad either. At $170 it's only a little more than a fusion 5 gold ($150) and you get two tuners!

I'll report back once I get to use it more.

[arogan]

HDHomerun has been working great for the last week.

I wrote a little app to help simplify recording:
http://aroganworld.blogspot.com/2007/04/hdhomerun.html

[firstadopter]

With the Zap2It listing change (I decided against using SchedulesDirect as the cost will be similar to Media Center, I decided to switch from GB-PVR to either Windows Media Center XP 2005 or Vista Home Premium?

I want to record HDTV and standard def streams. Stability is VERY important to me. I also want to use a plugin that automatically converts programs to MP4/H.264 files for viewing.

The horror stability stories of Vista do scare me, but is the Vista PVR that much better?

The cost is the same for either on newegg. Thanks!

[firstadopter]

Does Windows Media Center Vista have commercial skip support (at least through a plugin)?

Does it support USB-IRT also so I can use my sentimental Tivo remote (like I do now with GB-PVR)? Thanks.

[stupot42]

I can't comment on Vista HP, but you can almost certainly get plugins to convert your recordings to MP4 and there's a plug in I use for commercial skipping for XP MCE 2005. The commercial skip plugin is a bit flaky but I've not spent much time customising it. I think it's more designed for use in the US, so it'll probably work better "straight out of the box" (as it were) for you.

I'll have a look when I get home to see what the programs are called.

[arogan]

FYI, I've been using SchedulesDirect and it's been great so far. They reached another subscription milestone so now it's $15 for 6 months. They are still targeting $20/yr if they get enough subscriptions.

HDHomerun has been VERY reliable at least for how I'm using it. I've only tested it a little with vista media center which seemed to work fine.

[firstadopter]

Argh. So I tried to work on my 2 PCs last 2 days and it hasn't been fun.

The task was to switch a couple CD/DVD drives and hard-drives between the P4 HTPC and my Conroe box and then install Vista on the Conroe box to be my PVR.

I installed Vista first on the Conroe box, and it seemed fine. When I switched the drives (a 2nd HD and CD/DVD), my conroe box didn't post. I think the video card died. Sigh.

So I installed Vista on the P4, but after a long time, it was too slow on the 1 gig 2.6ghz P4. So I reinstalled Win XP on it, the first time I did it hung on a install re-boot, so I tried again, and it finally worked. However it took like 12-15 hrs total across 2 days (2 Win XP and loading all the service packs and 2 Vista installs takes forever).

Now I'm back to where I started, P4 running GBPVR as my PVR , but my Conroe box is dead. I'm going to see if can get my video card replaced since it's only 1.5 yrs old, but get this. MSI (ATI 1900xt) says on the website that the 2 yr warranty isn't from when I bought it, but from when it was manufactured. I'll see in 48 hrs when they respond to my tech support request if I'm still under warranty.

Oh another thing I think one my wireless PC cards is dead too from the switch. Maybe I shorted out my computer? Eh. I need to get one of those static wrist things since I have a carpeted apartment, although I do everything on a table.

[firstadopter]

MSI got my RMA-ed 1900xt, I'm hoping they give me a 8800GTS like Arogan was able to upgrade his last card. hehe. Prob not though.

[firstadopter]

I just got a email they shipped out my 1900xt. Took them a week. I guess I'm getting the same card back, no upgrade card like Arogan got. Oh well.

[stupot42]

Just a quick question guys... now that I've got the HDTV I'm thinking about making my media centre HD too... I've already got a graphics card that supports HD, but surely if you output DVI to HDMI then there's no sound... does that mean I'll need to invest in a surround set-up from the Media Centre? I'd rather it came from the TV... I want to keep it as simple as possible for the missus! I'm happy to stick with the SD for the moment, but I'm thinking about running HD DIVX or Xvid files through it, and perhaps getting a blue-ray drive for the PC... I'm probably not going to do it for some time, but it's something I need to think about.

Anyone got any experience?

[arogan]

On both my hdtv's there is usually one set of analog audio inputs that corresponds to a digital input (hdmi or dvi). It should be standard rca phono left/right or maybe a single 1/8 mini stereo input jack.

MKV with x264 (@5mbps or higher) + dd/dts 5.1 is all the rage right now. Divx/xvid is kind of old school.

videolan.org (vlc) will play pretty much anything as long as you've got the cpu juice.

[firstadopter]

Same thing for me. I have DVI to HDMI cable hookup to my plasma and then I just have an audio out RCA cable to my stereo, but most new HDTVs have a separate audio input jack too.

[stupot42]

Thanks for the info guys... I'll wait and see what arrives.

Cheers for the links too Arogan.

[stupot42]

Well, I bought a DVI to HDMI cable, got the PC hooked up and outputting 720p to the TV, and it looks AMAZING! I downloaded an episode of Jerico in HD (about 26gb for the hour long show) and watched that, and all I can say is wow! It looks so much better than the SD version I also have recorded off the TV also on the media centre. My other half has been very unconvinced so far by HD, but even she admitted that she could see the difference and was very impressed. I'm just going to have to find a massive hard drive for films etc until this format war is finally, once and for all, concluded.

All, I can say, BTW, is thank the lord for VLC player and it's ability to play anything you throw at it!

[stupot42]

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the quad core thread, but this seemed more relevant for here.

I've been playing around some more with my media centre, and I tried out the 360 as an extender. It works very well, and interestingly, to my eye, the picture quality of live TV looks better through the Xbox than it does through the Media Centre itself! I was also impressed by the performance when playing two different TV stations, one on the PC one on the Xbox. The PC used about 50% of the processor power spread fairly evently across the four cores, and both looked great with no lag or anything.

Now that the Xbox has come down in price I will almost certainly be buying one for our second TV meaning we can stream all of our recorded and live TV to that as well. It's only an SD CRT, but we only get SD TV, so it'll be fine, and should look great.

All I need now is to find a way of streaming the divx, and mkv files to the xbox too. I've heard it's possible, but I've not looked into it yet.

[stupot42]

Well, I've found from a bit of research that Transcode 360 should do what I wanted in the post above.

However, I'm more excited about Web Guide (http://www.asciiexpress.com/webguide/default.aspx), which allows for almost full media center access and control from any PC or mobile device with Internet access.

I'm away for 4 days starting tonight, so I don't think I'm going to be able to install any of this before next week. I don't want to make a mess of anything and end up with a PC that's too screwed to record the TV shows I have set for the next 4 days.

I'll have a look on my return tho. Until next week guys!

[arogan]

There's also http://www.orb.com
http://blog.arogan.com/2007/07/orbcom.html

It's more generic so it's good for those not tied to media center. I'll have to take a look at that web guide.

[stupot42]

I was looking at Orb too... it looks pretty good, but I dismissed it as Media Guide seems to do all that Orb does and more.

I did see that you can get it to run on the Wii tho, which would mean you can turn your Wii into a media center extender! That's pretty sweet!

[stupot42]

I'm planning on putting a digital Satellite card in my media centre to get the new free to air Satellite channels that has been launched in the UK. It currently has 3 HD channels, and only 2 of them are worth having, but I'm sure more are on the way, and it's the only way for me to get free HD. When we moved into the house the last people had left a satellite dish attached to the house, and all the cabling is still there and runs straight to my media centre. I tested it with a mates equipment and it works, so it's a very cheap and easy (fingers crossed) way of getting HD.

I plan on leaving my standard TV card as the main Windows Media Centre card, and using DVB Viewer (http://www.dvbviewer.com/en/index.php) for the satellite and HD shows and recording.

I'll let you know more once I get the card and set things up.

[stupot42]

I've been having random freezes on my Vista MCE box. I'm not sure what's causing them, but it seems to occur when it's attempting to return to S3 sleep after a recording. It's only doing it once in every 20 or 30 recordings, but the missus and I went on a weeks holiday last Monday and when I got back I found the damn thing had hung the first night we were away, which means it's been on for an entire week and missed every show apart from the first it was scheduled to record.

I can live with missing the odd recording, but it's really annoying as my old XP setup was rock solid and hadn't missed a recording in months before the upgrade, although I must confess the hardware was on the way out, and had started to cause problems.

I've scanned the logs and can't find a common factor. No errors are reported, so I have to assume that it's a service that is stopping the machine from sleeping. I thought I had it nailed when I uninstalled all the HP driver crap that my network printer installed, but that evidently wasn't the issue, or I've missed something. I don't really want to start from scratch with a re-install, but it's beginning to look like I may have to.

[arogan]

I finally wrote up my latest PC build:
http://blog.arogan.com/2009/05/small-form-factor-sff-pc-2.html